The 100 days ideas: Turrets, Tactic TCG and moar!

Like the title? No? Aww damn, took a few minutes to coin that gem. On topic, in the time iv'e been learning about what having a life is, I kept a notebook with me most of the time. I want to be a writer, but most of my time I found myself drawing maps and the likes, and I had a few ideas for /aw/ in there that i'd like to share. A few seem familiar, some spins on the old, and some brand new, so if you like any of them, make sure to comment your thoughts and all that good junk.

>Structures':

-Alright folks, iv'e brought it up before, but I just love the story of Wales too much! So, the idea consists of a few factors: Offence, Defense, and usage. "This isn't Civ, buildings just won't work", I aim to perfect that with this, well actually it already was perfected. The Coastal battery looks like a concrete building (Backed up by Arbitrators comment), thus equals a structure, a Proto-structure! Huzzah! So now that you have an idea of what my Structures' would be like, here are some more technical details: Structures' would be selected from a drop-down menu in a city (its menu). The default that is displayed in cities are Units, but this can be changed. But you basically drop down the menu, select "Structures'", and build your heart out. Depending on the unit, they can only be placed once, in a limited range. Some structures can be carried by units. 3 types of structures iv'e thought of, are Searchlights', Barbed wire, and Coastal Batteries.

The Searchlight would act as a non-moving sentry-plane kind of structure, you place them in an area, and they have a medium range of visibility. They detect Stealth, and you may place Militia or Infantry inside the, for more defense, with a maximum of 5 militia or 3 infantry inside. Each militia adds 1 def point, each infantry adds 2. It has a medium deployment range, and costs around 150c - 400c. You can also make D-lines in between Searchlights', you just have to have a unit place...

Barbed Wire, (Sick of your enemies sneaking in through Ural? Stick some barbed wire on that Bitch!) would act as a sort of, on-the-field, cheap defense kind of thing, it's hard to describe. You basically buy some, give it to an Infantry, they go out and do Infantry things, and when you're in a pickle, you select an option on that Infantry, where you want to place it (this includes pulling the tails ends of the image in the shape you want), and voila! You've made a portable D-line, that's barbed an wiry! It can also be used to upgrade some other structures' (And units? YES PLEASE!), like the Searchlight. It's basically the jack-of-all-trades of defensive structures, it can be used for whatever you like! Even /aw/-screenart. Oh, and it's image would be a bunch of x's lined up and what not. When placing it, it has a very small range, but it can be retrieved and used a few more times. Costs 50 c

Finally, the Coastal Battery. Not much to explain, as we already know what it is and what it does. It has a small deployment range, and does what normal Coastal batteries do. Costs 300c - 700c

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Similar discussions to Structures':
sandtimes thread
My original post about Structures'
Vindictives thread
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>Mein flagge! Display it!:

-Very simple, yet stylish! This can be turned off. Basically, this idea wooed me over when I was reading an atlas, and noticed every city in Ohioan had the Ohio flag next to it. Every Michigandarian city had the Michigan flag next to it. Gave me a feel thought, how about every city that someone owns has their capitols country flag next to it? In other words, say you're Poland, and you invade and take Minsk. Minsk would show the Polish flag, or whatever flag Poland happens to have, next to it. Just a little flag image, nothing more. When you click on the city, it shows a much bigger version.

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>Tactical Cards

-Alright! Massive new feature idea inbound! Iv'e talked about tactics before, and I STILL love the idea. But it just wouldn't work right. So I did some lurking, and remembered the Admins wanted to implement some sort of Card system, similar to Risk. Well, here's my answer to that! Tactical cards work like this: You got to the SP-Shop ("Upgrades tab" sounds too boring ), and buy a pack of Tactical cards for 50 sp. You get 7 random ones, I was thinking of having around 100 at the start, but anyways, you get 7 randoms. Duplicates would happen, because the Common/Uncommon/Rare setup works nice, and it adds to the flavor ahead. Now, before a match you can make a deck of 10 cards. They can only be used for one game, after the game they blow up and cause fatalities. Now, srsly they vanish, the war must have gotten to em'. This also makes Duplicates less Anger-related. Each Tactical card has a Tactic on it, for example, "Pincer" maneuver places your selected stack in a formation, like a pincer. Most tactics do this, we'll call them Base cards. You also have other cards that add to the Base, we'll call these Effect cards. These have special bonuses for specific tactics, like say +1 def or +1 ARB. They only work with the card that it's built for. Then we have a third kind, let's call them Special cards. These add to Base cards as well, but differently. There would be one for every Base tactic, and for example: Pincer maneuver would have one, where it goes into Pincer formation, but the Special gives it a bonus: The next turn, the tactic enters stage 2, or put simply, it clamps down on whatever enemies sadly happened to stroll in there, causing devastating damage (Atk is multiplied by a specific number). If you guys like this aspect, i'll add more too it, I don't want to add much to it if the community doesn't like it though. So, we'll see.

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Similar discussions on Tactical cards:
My original post on Tactics.
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>The Nuclear option

-Okay, let's keep this short: The original topic was locked for some stupid reason, so a resume could never be made. I'll make a version here, and i'll use from the best of my memory the creators opinion on what we discussed. If I get anything wrong, the original creator should correct me. Please visit this for the full discussion.

Resume:

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Similar discussions to The Nuclear option:
Tunders thread (original)
Original Dev post
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>Turrets

-Turrets! Lovely Turrets! Oh how I love them. So many good TF2 memories...moving on, Turrets would act as Units when- oh wait, let me explain what it actually is first! Basically, they are a hybrid of Unit and Structure. How you ask? Well you see, when a Coastal battery and Militia love each other very much, they send an order on craigslist for a huge fucking turret and slap that shit on top of the battery. And that Johnny, is how a turret is made. Turrets would have two distinct "modes", Offence and Defense. Offence would be it's "Unit" mode, where it can move freely with a limited range, but it has a low def stat. When it's in "Defense", it is stationary; it cannot move. But, it has an equal defense and offence. They would cost around 200c. Also, when any unit wanders into it's range (small when offence, large when defense) it automatically enters battle with the unit (not stealth, unless the stealth is detected), and depending on how far away the unit is, can take damage, but not as much if it's father away. If the unit attacked on it farther, the turret does less damage.

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Well that's all for now, it took me about an hour too write this so, I hope you enjoy it or get a laugh out of it, either way i'm happy you read it. Remember to comment your thoughts below! Don't be the guy who looks and likes it, but doesn't say it!

In my opinion there are too many suggestions to discuss in only one thread and we're going to lose the focus of it.

So, I will stick to the first and second idea.

Searchlight: Yes. It's a good idea and I don't a reason we couldn't implement it in the actual system we have, just like a unit with 0 range that can't be carried.

Barbed Wire: No. I think we should focus on improving the wall system we already have (such as making them unbreakable unless the units on it are totally defeated) before making similar features.

Coastal Battery: Yes, but with one condition: it has to be buffed for Naval Commander and nerfed with other strategies, otherwise it would be a strategy killer. That way it would also make NC more attractive to play with.

Mein flagge: Yes. It's a small, but yet cool detail. If it's simple to program, it should be implemented.

Tactical card idea does have potential. Turrets sound interesting

I see mostly negative impact on gameplay dynamics by the other major suggestions.
Structures sound useless to me who would use it? One can simply make defensive units they are somewhat mobile at least.
Searchlights are a waste of money this game is about conquering stuff they might just delay your defeat.

The rare missiles we already have are kinda shitty. I would think they own as they have ~60 attack but they cant do shit
because 8hp. I would not want to invest so much money when i can make nice units instead. Additionally I dont want to build and
research stuff every game over and over again. Do not forget this is risk.

Edit: When I think it over again: Turrets are a bad idea. With a couple of then deployed near your cities one can make an impenetrable defense when you exploit
the mechanics. I dont think you want that.

Both of you mentioned dislike against Structures', maybe I didn't say it the right way or didn't explain enough; Structures' would be a better substitute for d-lines, giving another dynamic to the game and having very many uses. I only listed defensive structures', but we could have ones that are used offensively, ones that make money, etc. It all depends on what people want.

@Pinheiro,

Sorry, if it works better, I can split it into separate threads after discussion on the first two cease?
Also on the Searchlight unit idea, having 0 range would completely make it useless; as it cannot move out of the city right? haha, I had the thought of making "fronts", where you make a d-line filled with searchlights over the area you want, and layers of barbed wire in front and back. Would really make battles interesting, instead of the "My stack is bigger than yours" dynamic; not to be offensive, but the Risk elements need to evolve some, but in a way where it's very optional to play /aw/ the "regular" way, or a way in which more advanced and harder-to-understand options are present. Not sure if what I said makes very much sense, hope it does though! And about Mein Flagge, I would think it would be simple if the admins just put a list a flags in the font for the game and typed them in, though that sounds horrible, it would be the simplest I would imagine. But I don't know anything about programming, so I don't know lol. Thanks for the feedback!

@VRIL,

Like I said in the many words above (I hope, lol. Not very good at explanations; too fast of a thinker, nothing gets dow- gaah, doing it again!), Structures would add a more advanced defensive option, while Tactical cards would add a more advanced offence. It's basically like adding on to the existing game, but making the aspects of it more advanced and slower. Maybe these things would work better in casual games? Who knows. Anyways, did you happen to read Tunder3s thread? it actually does a lot to help the missile idea, plus if you take a look at my table, you see that the attack is suitable for a missile, though the defense is still 0 (Not sure about everyone's opinion on the 0 aspect, please tell!).

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I have to ask you both, if you could add on or change these ideas, what would you change or add to make them better? (This is so I can get an idea on what everyone would want for these ideas etc).

These are good ideas, keep improving, and there should be a nuke stratagy, right. SO the nukes are strong enought and cheap enought to be as powerful as regular units. XD

Structures sound like a good idea, but since they act completely differently than anything else, I imagine it would take a lot of coding to implement in the manner you suggest, as not only must a new category be created, but every unit capable of interacting with that structure must be altered.

Mein Flagge sounds like it would be a good addition, and It wouldn't be as difficult to implement as structures.

The next two options I've seen being discussed by the makers of this game, and so I will leave them alone. Turrets; see Structures.

Look, is a cool idea, about some SearchLights


but, maybe they get implemented as Units, without Movility, and you move them with air planes?

Γραμμένο από Tundy, 28.03.2012 at 19:25

[img]http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/829/radars.png[/im]
[img]http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/86/afterwindtick.png[/im]


Look, is a cool idea, about some SearchLights


but, maybe they get implemented as Units, without Movility, and you move them with air planes?

I like! But maybe we should stick with the circles'? Or how about squares for structures'? And I like the image on the map, maybe something like that added on top of the square like how infantry or on top of their circles'? Also, I don't want the buildings and such to be units, would ruin the whole idea.

Γραμμένο από Garde, 28.03.2012 at 20:09

Γραμμένο από notserral, 28.03.2012 at 19:46

I agree with arbitrator. And I don't think that was a waste of a post, since it does represent the will of a large percentage of the AW player base.

Look, please just stay on-topic please? Either that or can you and your friends' please stop posting here? Thank you.

Sorry, that was my way of saying that I disagree with almost every suggestion you've made. Here's why:


1. Searchlights. Marines, Subs and Stealths are units whose key advantages are being, well, stealth. If you add units or mechanics that can circumvent that, these will become more and more useless until it becomes irrelevant. What AW needs in terms of stealth detection is 1) more detail about it on the tutorial and 2) simpler UI for showing detection ranges, as the current one slows your game down to a crawl due to lots of visibility rings (and Amok confirmed this is on the TODO list). Also, their defense purpose is already covered by defense lines. No.

2. Barbed Wire. I don't understand how defense lines couldn't just be used instead of this. Also, you propose more complexity into the game, something that should be avoided since the game is already hard enough to learn. No.

3. Coastal Batteries. No need for it to be structure type, since we have to avoid complexity creep. It could be added as premium, since AA is also premium, but there's currently no *need* for it, as it's even more circumstantial than AA. Anti Air is almost irrelevant as is. No.

4. Flags. We already have the colors to distinguish players, I don't see the point of adding one more symbol to confuse starting players. No.

5. Tactical Cards. The use you proposed is vastly different from the one in Risk, and the example you cited is useless - why would anyone want a pincer formation? Also, the way you proposed is incredibly complicated and this is a browser game, not Civilization, so complexity versus player retention is something that must be considered (and it's sounding a lot like I'm repeating myself). And it would make fights against high ranked players MUCH MORE hard for the lower rank. No.

6. Nuclear option. This has been proposed a thousand of times and of all ideas I've read, this one is the most complicated and most inconsistent with current gameplay. I believe it will be implemented, as the devs have spoken about it several times, but I hardly think it would be implemented this way (nuking an entire territory will hardly be available). No.

7. Turrets. Yes, I agree, TF2 is an awesome game. But turrets in this game would have no point because 1) a large range would make it incredibly overpowered in defense mode (and players would just deploy it in enemy territory, switch it to defense and kill everything); 2) a short range would make it easily countered by units with greater range, making it more of a deterrent mechanism than defense itself (and one that would be, like walls, killed by bombers from afar before the arrival of the main force); and 3) blitz would be very OP with it and IF would have an incredibly hard time against it. No.



Overall I think any suggestion must follow gameplay consistency and not add to the game's complexity. Doing so would definitely not affect the learning curve by a lot, but your suggestions suffer greatly from complexity creep.


BTW - I have no friends.

Γραμμένο από notserral, 29.03.2012 at 00:56

Γραμμένο από Garde, 28.03.2012 at 20:09

Γραμμένο από notserral, 28.03.2012 at 19:46

I agree with arbitrator. And I don't think that was a waste of a post, since it does represent the will of a large percentage of the AW player base.

Look, please just stay on-topic please? Either that or can you and your friends' please stop posting here? Thank you.

Words

Due to popular demand, I'll rewrite this post.
@1: I think everything should have a counter, there's 1 or 2 stealth detection units', and about 3 or 4 stealth units'. More options for detection would be nice.

@2: Because people use D-Lines to give themselves an extra turn, never for actual "defense". I get what you mean, it's just I think more defensive options would be cool.

@3: AAs' are a good example of a waste, because they really have no current use. In moderation they could be nice, but I see your point.

@4: What if you need to know somebodies' cap fast but don't feel like skimming?

@5: You shouldn't have added the browser game part, iv'e seen browser games much more complex than civ. How about every new player starts with a deck when making an account? And like I said, Risk cards' would be even more of a steep learning curve. I like the idea of cards, so I came up with this. In another post somewhere in this thread, I stated the different uses for such a formation.

@6: I didn't literally mean you would destroy Siberia. And if nukes' were added in every city, the game would be a P.O.S. because everyone would use those instead of any other air unit. They way I listed was already agreed upon in another thread, I even added links' so I wouldn't have to explain this!

@7: At your "1", that's called strategy. The short range is about the length of the Suez canal on the map, in a circular range. The long is about from Munich to Berlin. What I mean by "Range", is the area a unit will be attacked in. Turrets would move just like AAs'. Guess I should have been more clear on that.

Made this as a representation of what a Tactical card may look like.

Γραμμένο από Stomach Ulcers, 01.04.2012 at 18:43

I wasn't pointing out one of your flaws, I was pointing out that you were disregarding an entire post saying it was just simply stating "I hate your ideas" and asking him to give feedback, when that's exactly what he was doing. Glad to see you're still a pot calling the kettle black.

Okay, edited the post just for you ; )

I like the idea of game cards

I like some of these ideas but I think that they have to be handled very carefully as to not unbalance the core mechanics of the game. I think that game cards would make Afterwind into a completely different game. I kind of like a lot of the structures though.

P.S. This whole thread and all the talking about structures made it so that all I could think of was this

Γραμμένο από Counterpart, 02.04.2012 at 01:00

I like some of these ideas but I think that they have to be handled very carefully as to not unbalance the core mechanics of the game. I think that game cards would make Afterwind into a completely different game. I kind of like a lot of the structures though.

P.S. This whole thread and all the talking about structures made it so that all I could think of was this

Dude, this is probably the 15th or so epic post iv'e seen you make, you're the new honorary Forum wizard xD

Γραμμένο από Garde, 02.04.2012 at 09:04

Dude, this is probably the 15th or so epic post iv'e seen you make, you're the new honorary Forum wizard xD

Well I'm honoured but I don't see what was so epic about that lol. Or are you being sarcastic? Now I'm all paranoid....

I don't know what to do with myself now!

Γραμμένο από Garde, 29.03.2012 at 13:53

Γραμμένο από notserral, 29.03.2012 at 00:56

Γραμμένο από Garde, 28.03.2012 at 20:09

Γραμμένο από notserral, 28.03.2012 at 19:46

I agree with arbitrator. And I don't think that was a waste of a post, since it does represent the will of a large percentage of the AW player base.

Look, please just stay on-topic please? Either that or can you and your friends' please stop posting here? Thank you.

Words

Due to popular demand, I'll rewrite this post.
@1: I think everything should have a counter, there's 1 or 2 stealth detection units', and about 3 or 4 stealth units'. More options for detection would be nice.

@2: Because people use D-Lines to give themselves an extra turn, never for actual "defense". I get what you mean, it's just I think more defensive options would be cool.

@3: AAs' are a good example of a waste, because they really have no current use. In moderation they could be nice, but I see your point.

@4: What if you need to know somebodies' cap fast but don't feel like skimming?

@5: You shouldn't have added the browser game part, iv'e seen browser games much more complex than civ. How about every new player starts with a deck when making an account? And like I said, Risk cards' would be even more of a steep learning curve. I like the idea of cards, so I came up with this. In another post somewhere in this thread, I stated the different uses for such a formation.

@6: I didn't literally mean you would destroy Siberia. And if nukes' were added in every city, the game would be a P.O.S. because everyone would use those instead of any other air unit. They way I listed was already agreed upon in another thread, I even added links' so I wouldn't have to explain this!

@7: At your "1", that's called strategy. The short range is about the length of the Suez canal on the map, in a circular range. The long is about from Munich to Berlin. What I mean by "Range", is the area a unit will be attacked in. Turrets would move just like AAs'. Guess I should have been more clear on that.

@1: stealths do have a counter, walls and sentry planes, just because you don't know how to play the game doesn't need we need to add more counters, the game it currently fairly balanced as it is.

@2: you already get +1 def in defee lines for infantry, +2 with perfect defence, i don't see a problem, adding barbed wire would add confusion.

@3: The developers have tried o avoid the rock paper scissors scenario in this game, but i agree we need obvious counters for certain units, it would help if A-A's were slightly cheaper than they currently are, and it would also cool if there was a counter for naval units but there is really no point until the devs make naval commander a much more playable strategy.

@4: on the players list it quite clearly labels the capitals of every player. Also you don't understand empire building, to build an empire, you have to get the people of the countries you have conquered to accept you as your leader, if that doesn't happen, your empire won't last long. going full in and claiming the country as yours and sticking a great big flag there will probably lead to a revolt ( honestly don't know why this relates, but just thought i would say it lol.)

@5: i'm not against cards, but it should be an option to turn them off, and they should be off by default, actually it should be an entirely different game mode, leaving the base game the same, cards add an element of luck that i personally don't want to play with.

@6 nukes are another option that would be off by default, i really don't see the point in them, seeing as most games are over by under 50 turns anyway, it would be much more efficient to build units while you waste your money building nukes, lol
I honestly think adding nukes if will either be to op or totally worthless in game, there is no middle ground.

@7 while turrets are in defense i will spam bombers turn blocking and eventually killing them, would also use marines. also if they are as slow as AA's i doubt they would be useful

oh and also

Γραμμένο από Garde, 01.04.2012 at 14:25

Made this as a representation of what a Tactical card may look like.

maybe you could stop being lazy and make your own flower lol, it would be much easier if you did that, then the devs wouldn't have to waste time programming something that would be riddled with bugs

Γραμμένο από nonames, 03.04.2012 at 05:17

Γραμμένο από Garde, 29.03.2012 at 13:53

Γραμμένο από notserral, 29.03.2012 at 00:56

Γραμμένο από Garde, 28.03.2012 at 20:09

Γραμμένο από notserral, 28.03.2012 at 19:46

I agree with arbitrator. And I don't think that was a waste of a post, since it does represent the will of a large percentage of the AW player base.

Look, please just stay on-topic please? Either that or can you and your friends' please stop posting here? Thank you.

Words

Due to popular demand, I'll rewrite this post.
@1: I think everything should have a counter, there's 1 or 2 stealth detection units', and about 3 or 4 stealth units'. More options for detection would be nice.

@2: Because people use D-Lines to give themselves an extra turn, never for actual "defense". I get what you mean, it's just I think more defensive options would be cool.

@3: AAs' are a good example of a waste, because they really have no current use. In moderation they could be nice, but I see your point.

@4: What if you need to know somebodies' cap fast but don't feel like skimming?

@5: You shouldn't have added the browser game part, iv'e seen browser games much more complex than civ. How about every new player starts with a deck when making an account? And like I said, Risk cards' would be even more of a steep learning curve. I like the idea of cards, so I came up with this. In another post somewhere in this thread, I stated the different uses for such a formation.

@6: I didn't literally mean you would destroy Siberia. And if nukes' were added in every city, the game would be a P.O.S. because everyone would use those instead of any other air unit. They way I listed was already agreed upon in another thread, I even added links' so I wouldn't have to explain this!

@7: At your "1", that's called strategy. The short range is about the length of the Suez canal on the map, in a circular range. The long is about from Munich to Berlin. What I mean by "Range", is the area a unit will be attacked in. Turrets would move just like AAs'. Guess I should have been more clear on that.

@1: stealths do have a counter, walls and sentry planes, just because you don't know how to play the game doesn't need we need to add more counters, the game it currently fairly balanced as it is.

@2: you already get +1 def in defee lines for infantry, +2 with perfect defence, i don't see a problem, adding barbed wire would add confusion.

@3: The developers have tried o avoid the rock paper scissors scenario in this game, but i agree we need obvious counters for certain units, it would help if A-A's were slightly cheaper than they currently are, and it would also cool if there was a counter for naval units but there is really no point until the devs make naval commander a much more playable strategy.

@4: on the players list it quite clearly labels the capitals of every player. Also you don't understand empire building, to build an empire, you have to get the people of the countries you have conquered to accept you as your leader, if that doesn't happen, your empire won't last long. going full in and claiming the country as yours and sticking a great big flag there will probably lead to a revolt ( honestly don't know why this relates, but just thought i would say it lol.)

@5: i'm not against cards, but it should be an option to turn them off, and they should be off by default, actually it should be an entirely different game mode, leaving the base game the same, cards add an element of luck that i personally don't want to play with.

@6 nukes are another option that would be off by default, i really don't see the point in them, seeing as most games are over by under 50 turns anyway, it would be much more efficient to build units while you waste your money building nukes, lol
I honestly think adding nukes if will either be to op or totally worthless in game, there is no middle ground.

@7 while turrets are in defense i will spam bombers turn blocking and eventually killing them, would also use marines. also if they are as slow as AA's i doubt they would be useful

oh and also

Γραμμένο από Garde, 01.04.2012 at 14:25

Made this as a representation of what a Tactical card may look like.

maybe you could stop being lazy and make your own flower lol, it would be much easier if you did that, then the devs wouldn't have to waste time programming something that would be riddled with bugs

You make good points above but starting a game to get a screencap of a flower is lazy? Man, just leave.

you misunderstood, im saying during game, it will be much easier if you stop being lazy and make your own flower than get a card to do it for you. why do the developers have to spend a few hours implementing something that is easy to do manually already.

ITS JUST A FREAKING EXAMPLE