Your preferred Economic System? Or do you have others?

Which one? Or do you have any others you would prefer?

There are no pure capitalist, socialist or communist countries. everything is a mixed economy and leaning too far on a certain system has big flaws. next question.

COMMUNISM IS THE BEST

Full communism

Pluralist Commonwealth
=> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gar_Alperovitz#Community_wealth-building_and_the_pluralist_commonwealth_model

Γραμμένο από Noir Brillant, 20.03.2019 at 13:51

Pluralist Commonwealth
=> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gar_Alperovitz#Community_wealth-building_and_the_pluralist_commonwealth_model

Sounds like communism for black guys to me

Γραμμένο από 4nic, 20.03.2019 at 13:55

Γραμμένο από Noir Brillant, 20.03.2019 at 13:51

Pluralist Commonwealth
=> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gar_Alperovitz#Community_wealth-building_and_the_pluralist_commonwealth_model

Sounds like communism for black guys to me

It's based on common ownership, with the free association premise, so i agree it's very similar. But there is a major difference in the way to get there.

Communism kills freedom and uses dictatorship to reach its final goal - which has failed in the past, and will fail in the future.

Pluralist Commonwealth can be attained freely, slowly, step by step. No need for a revolution.
- You start a cooperative, you're one step closer.
- You create a bottom-up business, one step closer.
- Your city develops a worker-owned ISP service, you're even closer.
- etc.

Freedom is all that matters to me. Pluralist Commonwealth takes freedom one step further - into the economy. I think it's useless to have political freedom if you don't have economic freedom - and Pluralist Commonwealth gives you both.

Edit: this is pretty new to me, i just thought it was cool and different than all those top-down bullshit systems we hear about all the time, so I thought I would share. I cannot swear (yet) it would work ...

Neo-distributist American system

Ok I better see more Communism or you are all banned from my map with one city

Γραμμένο από Acquiesce, 20.03.2019 at 16:16

Neo-distributist American system

Sounds like socialism to me

Γραμμένο από Noir Brillant, 20.03.2019 at 14:16

Γραμμένο από 4nic, 20.03.2019 at 13:55

Γραμμένο από Noir Brillant, 20.03.2019 at 13:51

Pluralist Commonwealth
=> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gar_Alperovitz#Community_wealth-building_and_the_pluralist_commonwealth_model

Sounds like communism for black guys to me

It's based on common ownership, with the free association premise, so i agree it's very similar. But there is a major difference in the way to get there.

Communism kills freedom and uses dictatorship to reach its final goal - which has failed in the past, and will fail in the future.

Pluralist Commonwealth can be attained freely, slowly, step by step. No need for a revolution.
- You start a cooperative, you're one step closer.
- You create a bottom-up business, one step closer.
- Your city develops a worker-owned ISP service, you're even closer.
- etc.

Freedom is all that matters to me. Pluralist Commonwealth takes freedom one step further - into the economy. I think it's useless to have political freedom if you don't have economic freedom - and Pluralist Commonwealth gives you both.

Edit: this is pretty new to me, i just thought it was cool and different than all those top-down bullshit systems we hear about all the time, so I thought I would share. I cannot swear (yet) it would work ...

'You start a cooperative'

Already failed.

You try joining capital and means of production with people in my village, see how it goes, all of them IQ 75 with 4 grades of school.

It can only work in Scandinavia and Eastasia, nowhere else, you have to check IQ and mentality of people first, then decide the system, otherwise it will just fail horribly.

I am for Chinese model, if that's mixed economy, then i am for mixed economy model.

Where is Autism?

Γραμμένο από Skanderbeg, 26.03.2019 at 14:26

'You start a cooperative'

Already failed.

You try joining capital and means of production with people in my village, see how it goes, all of them IQ 75 with 4 grades of school.

It can only work in Scandinavia and Eastasia, nowhere else, you have to check IQ and mentality of people first, then decide the system, otherwise it will just fail horribly.

I am for Chinese model, if that's mixed economy, then i am for mixed economy model.

While I agree with you that education helps big time, I could list you many examples of successful cooperatives.
For instance, in my province of 8.175 millions in 2015, 7 millions of people have a cooperative as a bank. That's 86% of the population. 86% of the population that, no matter their IQ, decided to give the profit to themselves.

There are thousands of other examples that are as spectacular. I know we can also find thousands of other examples that royally failed. But my point is that it can work, and I believe efforts should be put in that direction.

Another point I want to make here is that stupid people are everywhere. While education might help, the existence of stupid people will remain, and I'd rather see them voting at a (low?) level of a bottom up system then seeing them at the top of big corporations and powerful governments, going crazy and ruining our societies.

Γραμμένο από Noir Brillant, 27.03.2019 at 07:21

While I agree with you that education helps big time, I could list you many examples of successful cooperatives.
For instance, in my province of 8.175 millions in 2015, 7 millions of people have a cooperative as a bank. That's 86% of the population. 86% of the population that, no matter their IQ, decided to give the profit to themselves.

There are thousands of other examples that are as spectacular. I know we can also find thousands of other examples that royally failed. But my point is that it can work, and I believe efforts should be put in that direction.

Another point I want to make here is that stupid people are everywhere. While education might help, the existence of stupid people will remain, and I'd rather see them voting at a (low?) level of a bottom up system then seeing them at the top of big corporations and powerful governments, going crazy and ruining our societies.

I don't know, there are lots of problems to solve to reach there. Many post-communist countries kept state-owned companies (public companies) during transition to capitalism. China still have many state-owned companies and give shares and stocks to workers (workers' owned company).

But Soviet Union gave company(enterprise) management to workers(democracy, voting), who held meetings everyday or week, discussing the company course, but that took hours, workers argued and no goals were set. Companies worked by only selling to the state, what government asked them to produce, they didn't look for other buyers, like other companies or abroad (which they were encouraged), they kept receiving state funding, technology and skilled labor to remain working locally.

It was true to say communism (collective economy/cooperative) was workers' paradise: you could come and go whenever you want, steal company tools, not work but still take wage at the end of the month, take long vacation and make company pay for it. Because who's gonna stop me? There is no boss or owner, just bunch of workers.

And i have no idea how Jews thrive in Kibbutz, i guess they can be added to Scandi/Jap group of succesful model of cooperative.

Γραμμένο από Skanderbeg, 27.03.2019 at 14:51

[...]

Thanks for your input, it's nice to have a worthy opinion, from someone that saw all of this from very (too?) close.

I was hoping that at some point, maybe the workers themselves could vote for incentive for hard work / consequences for stealing.

I thought that free association would promote that kind of things. A little bit like what we see in worker managed businesses, where you have higher responsibility jobs with a higher salary. Something reasonable, that the majority agrees with, not stupidly high salaries like in the private sector.
Or things like: "you want to be associated with us, don't steal, or you're out", you know? Same for not showing up at work.

Apparently not. But was it really bottom-up? Was the general Soviet "structure" imposed from above?

Γραμμένο από Noir Brillant, 03.04.2019 at 14:15

Thanks for your input, it's nice to have a worthy opinion, from someone that saw all of this from very (too?) close.

I was hoping that at some point, maybe the workers themselves could vote for incentive for hard work / consequences for stealing.

I thought that free association would promote that kind of things. A little bit like what we see in worker managed businesses, where you have higher responsibility jobs with a higher salary. Something reasonable, that the majority agrees with, not stupidly high salaries like in the private sector.
Or things like: "you want to be associated with us, don't steal, or you're out", you know? Same for not showing up at work.

Apparently not. But was it really bottom-up? Was the general Soviet "structure" imposed from above?

Early Soviets wanted to create state-owned companies, and then give them to workers, because they thought people who work there would know better how the company must operate, better than the planner in the capital city or politician. But workers couldn't agree among themselves (on the meetings) how the company should operate/work, so most of the times the orders came from above (central planners). That lasted for few decades until it finally collapsed. The companies were constantly underperforming and never used their full capacity (skill, tech, money, space), while government kept sending them money to keep them alive, until one day when it simply could not anymore.

This is just a simple explanation what happened to almost all east european/soviet republics. Maybe economies operated differently in other communist countries, though i've heard they tried hard to copy east european/soviet system. For example, no one can persuade me that North Korean companies are workers-owned, it is clear NK companies receive orders from above, they have clear targets to meet, and that's why they didn't fail in the 1989 like eastern europeans, though being homogenous nation also helps alot not to fail (minority separatism ruined Soviet Union and Yugoslavia).