Apartheid, Pt. II: Israel - "Nation-State for the Jewish people"

The thread title may be hugely controversial, and could seem racist, edgy or antissemitic just a few months or even years ago. Yet, none of that matters because International widespread criticism to Israel's recent-years conduct has been confirmed. Israel, as some in this game have said (Roai, that's you, if you're wonderin) wasn't a jewish state, but a state open to all ethnicities and minorities, proud of despite the criticism and antissemitism by the arabs, to harbour a sizeable minority of arabs.

It seems all that bullshit talk and arguments of an inclusive Israel (debuffed for years now) cannot possibly continue.

Israel, this week, has passed a discriminatory Law that declares Israel a Nation-State for the Jewish people, ulteriorily encouraging the settlements (illegal under International Law) and establishing fundamental-rights as an unmovable pinnacle guaranteed by the State of Israel, solely to its jews.

The State of Israel, being a modern state, grants Israeli nationality to its population, whether a jewish or a palestinian citizen of theirs. A nationality is defined as being the bond that each and every one of us have to the respective state. A German Nation is a person who has a juridical bond to the German State, that guarantees them rights (and duties), being this extendable to the rest of the countries. By Israel granting a primary role for the "Jewish People", it's effectively classifying its jewish nationals as 1st-class and other israel nations as 2nd class, if they aren't jewish.

We could say that this Law doesn't change anything because Israel has always classified itself as a nation of the jewish people, as some staunch defenders have claimed around these forums aswell. That is correct. Israel has always defined itself as a Jewish Nation-State ever since its creation was consented by the Great Powers and the UN. However, with this law, we go from a de facto claim of a status to a de jure status of definition. This Law is not an ordinary law, that intends to guide the Israeli State to pursue and defend the Jewish Nationals. It's a reforced-law, which means it's tank'ed from being supressed from infra-hierarchical ordinary laws, because this law assumes the status of Quasi-constitutional or Constitutional Law, who can only be repealed and edited by laws of the same formal category. Basically, by approving a reforced-law making the integrity of jews a constitucional value, it's tank'ing the law from being swiftly repealed and endorsing it to a Constitutional Identity that defines the State of Israel.

Basically, this law Constitutionalizes Segregation, by protecting Jewish Nationals by constitution, while demeaning other nationals, it's apartheid all over again, but with the tacit consent of the US and EU.

Where's the Principle of Equality that has guided modern nation-states in their conducts and protected its nationals from arbitrary policies? Where are the so-called enlightened values that seemed to have vanished from a self-proclaimed developed nation?

History repeats itself, and the victim of the past has become the criminal of the present.


Disclaimer: I am not wanting to start a debate of hate on Israel as a country per se. This is not an antissemitic thread at any capacity, but simply aimed at being a point of reflection for something happening in the world that somehow affects us "global community" as a whole. Besides that, knowledge doesn't take space and it's always good for some needed reflection, even if sometimes (as I've been led to believe), on this game, this is impossible, with the amount of politicized radicals and grunts who roam around this forum, from both sides of the palisade.

If this thread is perceived as a fueler of hate, I am sorry, but that's not my attention, but simply to cast some "reflective-debate" on this issue, hoping to avoid it from derailing due to emotions and radical convictions, that I do not adopt by the milimeter on this. Should it be deemed as derailing or explosive, pm me (or mods too) or just overall lock it or delete it.


https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/netanyahu-israel-jewish-nation-state-bill-law-palestine-election-a8454776.html

I will not cover all the contect and assumptions of this message because we'v done it too many times and you don't seem to care. I wspecify only the new one:

1. It has nothing to do with apartheid. the Law does'nt say anything about classes or equality.

2. Don't try to picture it as the first episode of Tale of an Handmaid. It was populist law to empower Nethanyahu and represent himself as a nationalist before elections with the old "Only the right is patriotic" slogans.

3. Minorities in Israel are not supressed. Israel invensts masses of its budget for social help, It forces its universities to implement affirmative action policy. and everytime Nethanyahu does something to threathen Israel as democracy he is losing power and support.

4. Israel has no constitution. that stupid bill cannot be implemented in any authority.

5. The other bills passed this weeks due Nethanyahu surrender to the religious parites brought hell to him by the Israeli public and he lost support and realiability of the public. major part of the public who were swinging votes or not sure of what part ofpolitics they are turned against him on social media and desided to vote against him. the "nationality law" was suppose to soften the damage caused by the fact he gave what does not belong to him to save his coalition. but it only brought more anger upon him. if he will fix it he will lose the next elections. Persoanlly I am finishing my military service in two weeks and I promise that if he will not lose or this will not be fixed I will leave Israel as many others.

6. Do not protend to be saint. you have very clear intentions and you don't care to play ingorant for that.

7. If you really going to insist otherwise. please provide details of Education and Intergration level of minorities in Israel compared to Portgual (peaceful european country).

Γραμμένο από Rock Lee, 21.07.2018 at 12:53

I will not cover all the contect and assumptions of this message because we'v done it too many times and you don't seem to care. I wspecify only the new one:

1. It has nothing to do with apartheid. the Law does'nt say anything about classes or equality.

2. Don't try to picture it as the first episode of Tale of an Handmaid. It was populist law to empower Nethanyahu and represent himself as a nationalist before elections with the old "Only the right is patriotic" slogans.

3. Minorities in Israel are not supressed. Israel invensts masses of its budget for social help, It forces its universities to implement affirmative action policy. and everytime Nethanyahu does something to threathen Israel as democracy he is losing power and support.

4. Israel has no constitution. that stupid bill cannot be implemented in any authority.

5. The other bills passed this weeks due Nethanyahu surrender to the religious parites brought hell to him by the Israeli public and he lost support and realiability of the public. major part of the public who were wingers or not sure of what part of the politics they are turned against him on social media and desided to vote against him. the "nationality law" was suppose to soften the damage caused by the fact he gave what does not belong to him to save his coalition. but it only brought more anger upon him. if he will fix it he will lose the next elections. Persoanlly I am finishing my military service in two weeks and I promise that if he will not lose or this will not be fixed I will leave Israel as many others.

6. Do not protend to be saint. you have very clear intentions and you don't care to play ingorant for that.

7. If you really going to insist otherwise. please provide details of Education and Intergration level of minorities in Israel compared to Portgual (peaceful european country).

joo

Γραμμένο από smegma lover, 21.07.2018 at 13:06

joo

Hey

Γραμμένο από Rock Lee, 21.07.2018 at 13:06

Γραμμένο από smegma lover, 21.07.2018 at 13:06

joo

Hey

i like hitler

Γραμμένο από Rock Lee, 21.07.2018 at 12:53

I will not cover all the contect and assumptions of this message because we'v done it too many times and you don't seem to care. I wspecify only the new one:

1. It has nothing to do with apartheid. the Law does'nt say anything about classes or equality.

2. Don't try to picture it as the first episode of Tale of an Handmaid. It was populist law to empower Nethanyahu and represent himself as a nationalist before elections with the old "Only the right is patriotic" slogans.

3. Minorities in Israel are not supressed. Israel invensts masses of its budget for social help, It forces its universities to implement affirmative action policy. and everytime Nethanyahu does something to threathen Israel as democracy he is losing power and support.

4. Israel has no constitution. that stupid bill cannot be implemented in any authority.

5. The other bills passed this weeks due Nethanyahu surrender to the religious parites brought hell to him by the Israeli public and he lost support and realiability of the public. major part of the public who were swinging votes or not sure of what part ofpolitics they are turned against him on social media and desided to vote against him. the "nationality law" was suppose to soften the damage caused by the fact he gave what does not belong to him to save his coalition. but it only brought more anger upon him. if he will fix it he will lose the next elections. Persoanlly I am finishing my military service in two weeks and I promise that if he will not lose or this will not be fixed I will leave Israel as many others.

6. Do not protend to be saint. you have very clear intentions and you don't care to play ingorant for that.

7. If you really going to insist otherwise. please provide details of Education and Intergration level of minorities in Israel compared to Portgual (peaceful european country).

I don't know about you, but having a reforced-value with constitutional value saying Israel is a Nation State of the Jews does deem as inconstitutional or para constitutional laws that flow against that intention, namely those granting equality to non-jews or parity of treatment. I can't possibly believe you're denying the authority of a Law and its capacity of implementation, especially when it's given quasi-constitutional status. Just because it doesn't advocate for difference of treatments explicitly, does not mean it doesn't consent to it. a contrario, if it states one as different than the other, it states the other is of different status, and in this context, inferior in some way. It's ludacris to spin it around.

Also Israel has a Constitution indeed. A Constitution does not have to be a formally written document as common people believe. You can have Costumary constitutions like Britain, that has no written constitution but a set of historical documents fortified as being of Constitutional Value. In similarity, Israel has a formally unwritten constitution, but simply a set of laws that hold constitutional value, like this one.

A Law can be populist, it still does not remove its potential of aplicability..

7 - Syrian refugees graduating in University of Coimbra (one in arquitecture); Syrian refugees being given good apartments near Lisbon; The Muslim Community has recognition, support and protection; The Ismailis are so protected here that Aga Khan made his jubilee commemmoration in Lisbon, hailing the integration of the ismailis and the protection of religious freedom; religious minorities are scrupulously respected by the Presidency, who welcomed them all to debate euthanasia..I could list you more but I've proved what you wanted, oh and there's frequent exchange programmes with muslim countries. I had a pair of indonesians in class xd

Γραμμένο από Al Fappino, 21.07.2018 at 13:55

I don't know about you, but having a reforced-value with constitutional value saying Israel is a Nation State of the Jews does deem as inconstitutional or para constitutional laws that flow against that intention, namely those granting equality to non-jews or parity of treatment. I can't possibly believe you're denying the authority of a Law and its capacity of implementation, especially when it's given quasi-constitutional status. Just because it doesn't advocate for difference of treatments explicitly, does not mean it doesn't consent to it. a contrario, if it states one as different than the other, it states the other is of different status, and in this context, inferior in some way. It's ludacris to spin it around.

Also Israel has a Constitution indeed. A Constitution does not have to be a formally written document as common people believe. You can have Costumary constitutions like Britain, that has no written constitution but a set of historical documents fortified as being of Constitutional Value. In similarity, Israel has a formally unwritten constitution, but simply a set of laws that hold constitutional value, like this one.

A Law can be populist, it still does not remove its potential of aplicability..

7 - Syrian refugees graduating in University of Coimbra (one in arquitecture); Syrian refugees being given good apartments near Lisbon; The Muslim Community has recognition, support and protection; The Ismailis are so protected here that Aga Khan made his jubilee commemmoration in Lisbon, hailing the integration of the ismailis and the protection of religious freedom; religious minorities are scrupulously respected by the Presidency, who welcomed them all to debate euthanasia..I could list you more but I've proved what you wanted, oh and there's frequent exchange programmes with muslim countries. I had a pair of indonesians in class xd

I have readen about the law both in English and Hebrew just to be sure and I'm sorry but it does'nt give any instructions or even guidelines about anything. what exactly is there to implement? In the past even in case the law allowed violetion of human right the courts have forbidden it claiming it violeates the spirit of democracy. the administrative class of Israel can not and will not its democratic lifestyle because of retarded law that says Israel is Jewish.

Israel has two guidelines and these are the delcration of indepandance that unarguebly stands for full equality and what the high court defined as (in quick translation) and elementral laws to guide institutes (same laws that forbid discrimination). But high court has the authority and the will for judicial activism and it does'nt allow laws that put the spirit of democracy in danger to pass. or in cases they feel wrong implemetion of the law causes severe injustice.

Regarding Integration - I can give you examples of minorities here ingerating well in the army. univerities and both public and private scetors. that's not the point. I asked for stats but to be honest after you did'nt deliver that i searched for these and it's kinda hard to find stats about education along minorities. maybe tomorrow i will spend some time looking after it. if you could find i would be greatful.

As I said time and again: JEWISH PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO THEIR STATE, BUT NOT THIS WAY

Γραμμένο από Rock Lee, 21.07.2018 at 14:14

--

In Portugal we don't collect any stats by race or minority, there's also estimates, as there's the consensual belief that the Portuguese Nation engulfs Portuguese of all backgrounds (it's a centenary conception because of colonialism).

Also, the issue is not the Law giving guidelines, it's the fact the Law consents to it. Unless your Constitutional Court with their iurisprudential activism bar the Law from having its proposed effective by deeming it as unconstitutional or doctrinarily agilize it to suprapositive principles of Equality, Dignity of Human Life, the Law consents to some form of discrimination for now. It doesn't need to be explicit, it can tacitly consent to it

Γραμμένο από Black Swans, 21.07.2018 at 15:18

As I said time and again: JEWISH PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO THEIR STATE, BUT NOT THIS WAY

That's the whole point of the thread, I don't blame it on the people tbh, it's just Netanyahu who's forcing too many steps to assimilate Israeli's to one padron, and being rejected by it, it's a radical doctrine that has foundations in the 1930's tbh. A State of Israel can plentfully exist, coexisting with a Palestinian State and while enforming jewish traditions, it can consent to others at a parity of level. RIP Eurovision next year

Γραμμένο από Al Fappino, 21.07.2018 at 15:32

Γραμμένο από Black Swans, 21.07.2018 at 15:18

As I said time and again: JEWISH PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO THEIR STATE, BUT NOT THIS WAY

That's the whole point of the thread, I don't blame it on the people tbh, it's just Netanyahu who's forcing too many steps to assimilate Israeli's to one padron, and being rejected by it, it's a radical doctrine that has foundations in the 1930's tbh. A State of Israel can plentfully exist, coexisting with a Palestinian State and while enforming jewish traditions, it can consent to others at a parity of level. RIP Eurovision next year

No mate, it's not Netanyahu. I hate that excuse it's only politicians, he has support, you don't see people rioting, etc. THIS IS THE FOUNDATION BASE OF STATE OF THE ISRAEL

Γραμμένο από Black Swans, 21.07.2018 at 16:23

No mate, it's not Netanyahu. I hate that excuse it's only politicians, he has support, you don't see people rioting, etc. THIS IS THE FOUNDATION BASE OF STATE OF THE ISRAEL

A politician is nothing than the head of the crowd that endorses him. Of course what he does has some sort of support

Γραμμένο από Al Fappino, 21.07.2018 at 15:27

Γραμμένο από Rock Lee, 21.07.2018 at 14:14

--

In Portugal we don't collect any stats by race or minority, there's also estimates, as there's the consensual belief that the Portuguese Nation engulfs Portuguese of all backgrounds (it's a centenary conception because of colonialism).

Also, the issue is not the Law giving guidelines, it's the fact the Law consents to it. Unless your Constitutional Court with their iurisprudential activism bar the Law from having its proposed effective by deeming it as unconstitutional or doctrinarily agilize it to suprapositive principles of Equality, Dignity of Human Life, the Law consents to some form of discrimination for now. It doesn't need to be explicit, it can tacitly consent to it

consentsing to what exactly? Even in the law it points out that Israel is still democratic and discrimination is forbidden. it does allow it support it or make it easier in any way

Γραμμένο από Black Swans, 21.07.2018 at 16:23

No mate, it's not Netanyahu. I hate that excuse it's only politicians, he has support, you don't see people rioting, etc. THIS IS THE FOUNDATION BASE OF STATE OF THE ISRAEL

Most people don't even know what's the meaning of this law. they passed. they drilled it out of content just content deliberately just so they can have something to seem patriotic they can pass.

Γραμμένο από Rock Lee, 21.07.2018 at 23:03

consentsing to what exactly? Even in the law it points out that Israel is still democratic and discrimination is forbidden. it does allow it support it or make it easier in any way

The very first moment you have a Law saying a country is primarily for a certain ethno-cultural group and make that an unmovable constitutional pinnacle, you're already being inequal to other ethno-cultural minorities and thus ulteriorily consenting to discrimination or some sort of 1st class and 2nd class citizens..why is it for you people so hard? It's irrelevant whether it's an electoral stunt or not, but it happened and cannot be cast.

If Germany were to pass a Constitutional Revision and add an article that stated that the founding end of the German State is to serve its German Nation or People, things would be different for you wouldn't it?


Also People =/= Citizens/Nationals, just so we're clear.

Γραμμένο από Al Fappino, 21.07.2018 at 15:32

Γραμμένο από Black Swans, 21.07.2018 at 15:18

As I said time and again: JEWISH PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO THEIR STATE, BUT NOT THIS WAY

A State of Israel can plentfully exist, coexisting with a Palestinian State

One tiny problem, I don't think the Palestinians want to share, they litteraly gangbanged Isreal with Iraq, Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, and I think Syria, and got their ass handed to them, and for many years have been shooting rockets over the border. I support them having some sort of state, but they've not been helping with the multi state plan.

Γραμμένο από Cheerfultitanic, 22.07.2018 at 18:40

One tiny problem, I don't think the Palestinians want to share, they litteraly gangbanged Isreal with Iraq, Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, and I think Syria, and got their ass handed to them, and for many years have been shooting rockets over the border. I support them having some sort of state, but they've not been helping with the multi state plan.

If they don't want to share, we can always just strip the State of Israel of it's uniformous existence and give make it a UN-administered territory with the backing and protection of Regional and World Powers, enforming both Israelis and Palestinians in all levels of administration in parity - An utopia, but would solve the bloody killing

Γραμμένο από Al Fappino, 21.07.2018 at 10:28

-snip-

dude
stop acting like anyone cares what you think your opinion is as irrelevant to Israel
as an Israelis opinion of Portugal would be.
stick your nose back into your own pile of shit and leave other nations business to themselves

Γραμμένο από Rock Lee, 21.07.2018 at 14:14

why are you answering him like you care what he thinks hes just a dumb ass teenager from Portugal
who should mind his own business

Israels problem was always that they cared to much about what other countries thought of them.

Γραμμένο από Guest, 22.07.2018 at 22:08

Γραμμένο από 1GodofWar1, 22.07.2018 at 21:56

Γραμμένο από Al Fappino, 21.07.2018 at 10:28

-snip-

dude
stop acting like anyone cares what you think your opinion is as irrelevant to Israel
as an Israelis opinion of Portugal would be.
stick your nose back into your own pile of shit and leave other nations business to themselves

Israel isnt a real nation, it was a puppet state built on lies and is now left to do as it pleases even when most the world disagrees with them just because they have American backing. Israel is as real as those puppet states Russia creates along its border.

Israel existed longer than new Zealand and actually is one of the oldest nations in the world

New Zealand dates back at least 700 years to when it was discovered and settled by Polynesians.

The Land of Israel has come under the sway of various empires and has been home to a variety of ethnicities, but was predominantly Jewish from roughly 1,000 years before the Common Era (BCE) until the 3rd century of the Common Era (CE).[1] The adoption of Christianity by the Roman Empire in the 4th century led to a Greco-Roman Christian majority which lasted until the 7th century when the area was conquered by the Arab Muslim Empires. It gradually became predominantly Moslem until the Crusades between 1096 and 1291, when it was the focal point of conflict between Christianity and Islam. From the 13th century it was mainly Moslem with Arabic as the dominant language and was first part of the Syrian province of the Mamluk Sultanate and then part of the Ottoman Empire until the British conquest in 1917.

How you anti-semites survive irl

Γραμμένο από 1GodofWar1, 22.07.2018 at 21:56

dude
stop acting like anyone cares what you think your opinion is as irrelevant to Israel
as an Israelis opinion of Portugal would be.
stick your nose back into your own pile of shit and leave other nations business to themselves

Brutes will always remain brutes, hence humanity in 2018

Γραμμένο από Al Fappino, 23.07.2018 at 07:57

Γραμμένο από 1GodofWar1, 22.07.2018 at 21:56

dude
stop acting like anyone cares what you think your opinion is as irrelevant to Israel
as an Israelis opinion of Portugal would be.
stick your nose back into your own pile of shit and leave other nations business to themselves

Brutes will always remain brutes, hence humanity in 2018

you do know Humanity is inherently Inhumane?

Γραμμένο από Seranox, 23.07.2018 at 14:11

you do know Humanity is inherently Inhumane?

If we, humanes, settled ourselves with that conclusion, what point would it make that throughout Human history, we humans have always tried to excel ourselves and our forefathers?

Humanity is rather an evolution in continuity more than anything.

Γραμμένο από 1GodofWar1, 22.07.2018 at 22:18

The Land of Israel has come under the sway of various empires and has been home to a variety of ethnicities, but was predominantly Jewish from roughly 1,000 years before the Common Era (BCE) until the 3rd century of the Common Era (CE).[1] The adoption of Christianity by the Roman Empire in the 4th century led to a Greco-Roman Christian majority which lasted until the 7th century when the area was conquered by the Arab Muslim Empires. It gradually became predominantly Moslem until the Crusades between 1096 and 1291, when it was the focal point of conflict between Christianity and Islam. From the 13th century it was mainly Moslem with Arabic as the dominant language and was first part of the Syrian province of the Mamluk Sultanate and then part of the Ottoman Empire until the British conquest in 1917.

I could easily debunk the basis-conception you're talking about, but the bulk of this thread was to discuss a pretense inequality in ethno-cultural minorities in the country of Israel.

But, since I won't debunk what you're trying to mean, let me just tell you that you cannot possibly say a transnational ethno-cultural group has some sort of millenary ancestry that grants them rights to their first primitive land, if that were the case, boy oh boy America

I dont support israeli killing of rock-throwing civilians (obviously), but i dont support palestinians either. According to wikipedia, there are 1.6 million arabs in Israel (not gaza and west bank), so if it is so bad, why are they there? Simply move.

By staying there, you just prolong the conflict, and you are unable to develop (in peace). UN agreements and 'peaceful' settlements proposed by 'great powers' doesnt work, as proven in recent history. Weaker have to relocate in order to find peace and happiness, thats the most practical thing currently.

Γραμμένο από Skanderbeg, 23.07.2018 at 18:06

I dont support israeli killing of rock-throwing civilians (obviously), but i dont support palestinians either. According to wikipedia, there are 1.6 million arabs in Israel (not gaza and west bank), so if it is so bad, why are they there? Simply move.

By staying there, you just prolong the conflict, and you are unable to develop (in peace). UN agreements and 'peaceful' settlements proposed by 'great powers' doesnt work, as proven in recent history. Weaker have to relocate in order to find peace and happiness, thats the most practical thing currently.

Agree, also the Israeli settlements.

Israel <3 <3 <3

Γραμμένο από Guest, 23.07.2018 at 00:41

wrong again lots of the Jews can directly trace their heritage all the way back to king David era
and the tribe of Jewish priests can date themselves back to mt sinai event in the bible
just because they lived for a while in Poland doesn't make them polish
and as Hitler pointed out blatantly just because they were generations in Germany does not make them German
you just keep on showing what an ignorant person you are
im sure you know a lot about some subjects
but on ones you have no clue please dont spew nonsense
like my advice to fappy
because to people like myself who know quite a bit on the subject you just look stupid.