On the new ToS.

Γραμμένο από theFuehrer, 16.03.2015 at 17:14

Γραμμένο από RaulPB, 16.03.2015 at 10:40

You have a point but as the great Brianwl says... you made a mistake as big as the admin's by making this a public cry of attention. Things get solved by talking with each other, not by making problems public and let everyone else besides the resposanble for this action tell their opinion about all this stuff.

Raul, you should learn to read.. Brain never said I made a mistake as big as the admin's did. ....

Ummm... actually i am going to say you made a mistake... you spelled my name wrong ...

Γραμμένο από theFuehrer, 16.03.2015 at 00:22

Γραμμένο από Quantum027, 15.03.2015 at 19:12

Γραμμένο από theFuehrer, 15.03.2015 at 18:31

Γραμμένο από Aetius, 14.03.2015 at 21:03

Is this even legal? Changing terms of service without notification?

It is illegal here in the states. I assume since their website is accessible here in the states, these laws should apply to atWar as well.

this is where i dont understand how the internet can be defined by a specific countries laws, whose does it follows? the website says they follow Estonian law but i dont live in estonia so why does that matter to me

That is my point. Since we do not live in Estonia.. there laws do not affect us here, nor do they matter. However, since this site is accessible here in the states.. I am pretty certain they should be following American laws.

That is what bothers me about the internet, because this website is accessible in nearly every country (RIP North Korean AtWar players) so how does atwar follow every countries rules without coming across conflicting rules? I find that the internet should either have its own international law or something should be put down to explain why US law should be upheld over Estonian Law, I am not saying that Estonian Law or US Law should be followed but I just find it hard for us to say that this is illegal when we cant even say who makes it illegal because who makes the laws for the internet?

Γραμμένο από Quantum027, 16.03.2015 at 23:09

That is what bothers me about the internet, because this website is accessible in nearly every country (RIP North Korean AtWar players) so how does atwar follow every countries rules without coming across conflicting rules? I find that the internet should either have its own international law or something should be put down to explain why US law should be upheld over Estonian Law, I am not saying that Estonian Law or US Law should be followed but I just find it hard for us to say that this is illegal when we cant even say who makes it illegal because who makes the laws for the internet?

Dude i said above that there are international regulations, laws and rules of jurisdictions.

If i came to USA as a tourist and you kill me ...because im from Croatia would you be trialed by croatian courts under croatian laws?

Also imagine you come from a country where marijuana is legal ...you visit Croatia and roll up a joint ...a cop stops you and you say "but its legal in my country".

...nah you would probably say "im an american citizen, take me to my embassy!!!!" xD

...

what exactly do you need control of your maps for, are you making them for the atwar community and its' players or yourselves? You abused the privilige by trying to strongarm the admins with it so they took it away and rightfully so. The only qualm here is that the community wasnt notified of the tos change.

i should also add that the laws regarding this are irrelevant since this is a private website, none of your human rights have been violated, stop being such drama queens.

Γραμμένο από theFuehrer, 16.03.2015 at 17:14

Raul, you should learn to read.. Brian never said I made a mistake as big as the admin's did. He is asking me questions, not telling me. Only you are assuming that because you think I did not PM them, maybe I did, you would still be making a fool of yourself either way for assuming... I simply stated some facts about the admins behaviors when it comes to informing us about lifetime specials, or whatever it may be that involves money vs. informing us about important changes.

After all, the ToS policy does affect me, it affects us all, so why should I, or anybody else, not have a say in these forums that is used for discussion purposes? I am not crying for attention, nor do I care about it, so you should stop thinking that. Simply, I wish they had the decency to inform me some changes were made. If they had done so, I would not be here commenting. But I am almost sure you would be..

I also think you should take your own advice. Why don't you try to approach me like a normal person, instead of insulting me in a public forum? Does that make you any different than what you think I am? Nope, not really.

Have a good day.

Well, the part of it being a mistake is mine, not Brian's; in my opinion, making this public is a mistake, and an even greater mistake in case you've already PMed the admins. In case you already PMed them, what are you doing here? Go talk with them. In case you haven't, give it a shot. I don't think we are anyone to state anything about the admin's behaviour, after all it's their game, do not forget that they can do whatever they please with their game, we can only accept it or quit the game. I think that they should have informed/asked/be curious about other opinions about this change but... It's done. Nothing we can do right? And if there's something that can be done about it, pls share it with us, that would actually be worthy of hearing. But making so many cries in public... what's the purpose of it? Problems should always be discussed in private and solved in private, not made public so that everyone gets to think that the other guy is an asshole or to denigrate his public image, that proves very little respect in my opinion.

Hm... I insulted you? XD PLS! Show me where did I ever insult you If you don't show me any proof of it I might just think you're being a liar?

Γραμμένο από Permamuted, 17.03.2015 at 07:15

...

what exactly do you need control of your maps for, are you making them for the atwar community and its' players or yourselves? You abused the privilige by trying to strongarm the admins with it so they took it away and rightfully so. The only qualm here is that the community wasnt notified of the tos change.

i should also add that the laws regarding this are irrelevant since this is a private website, none of your human rights have been violated, stop being such drama queens.

This is about principles, this is about controversy of Terms of service not just here but in general and this is about you assholes coming here commenting "drama" "cry" "drama queens" and ranting retarded shit like "private website" , on more serious topics in AW.

Human rights? ...you meant to say consumer rights. Private business also doesn't mean you can do what ever the fuck you want and that your beyond law ...serious facepalm on that sentence.

And changing terms of service without notice to consumers Laochra is not a "qualm" ...its very much serious, with many examples and cases of other websites and rulings in favor of consumers.

Γραμμένο από Goblin, 17.03.2015 at 07:33

Γραμμένο από Permamuted, 17.03.2015 at 07:15

...

what exactly do you need control of your maps for, are you making them for the atwar community and its' players or yourselves? You abused the privilige by trying to strongarm the admins with it so they took it away and rightfully so. The only qualm here is that the community wasnt notified of the tos change.

i should also add that the laws regarding this are irrelevant since this is a private website, none of your human rights have been violated, stop being such drama queens.

This is about principles, this is about controversy of Terms of service not just here but in general and this is about you assholes coming here commenting "drama" "cry" "drama queens" and ranting retarded shit like "private website" , on more serious topics in AW.

Human rights? ...you meant to say consumer rights. Private business also doesn't mean you can do what ever the fuck you want.

And admins gained nothing by this ...don't fool yourselves.

Indeed, in that case assuming estonias laws on consumer rights are similar to that of most countries, if you dont get what youre paying for you have a right to get your money back.

If you pursue this youll get your 40$ back(unless youre a beta trooper which most in this thread are) and control of your maps. But then ofc your account will be terminated and all youre left with is a waste of hours and map content which is largely useless outside of atwar.

a i said.... drama queens.

Γραμμένο από Permamuted, 17.03.2015 at 08:00

Indeed, in that case assuming estonias laws on consumer rights are similar to that of most countries, if you dont get what youre paying for you have a right to get your money back.

If you pursue this youll get your 40$ back(unless youre a beta trooper which most in this thread are) and control of your maps. But then ofc your account will be terminated and all youre left with is a waste of hours and map content which is largely useless outside of atwar.

a i said.... drama queens.

Hahaha ...yes Lao consumer rights are basically only "get my money back if i am not satisfied" ...love how you guys simplify things to bullshit when you don't know what you are talking about.

Makes me wonder why do laws of consumer protection have hundreds of pages and paragraphs.

You guys should just stick to comments like "drama", "bla", "cry" ...the less you say the less stupid you look.

In the end ...so what if this is a cry topic, so fuckin what? Is that an argument against the wrongness of changing ToS without notice or the controversy of admins giving themselves rights to hold on to consumer made material?

I don't think so.

Γραμμένο από Goblin, 17.03.2015 at 08:21

Γραμμένο από Permamuted, 17.03.2015 at 08:00

Indeed, in that case assuming estonias laws on consumer rights are similar to that of most countries, if you dont get what youre paying for you have a right to get your money back.

If you pursue this youll get your 40$ back(unless youre a beta trooper which most in this thread are) and control of your maps. But then ofc your account will be terminated and all youre left with is a waste of hours and map content which is largely useless outside of atwar.

a i said.... drama queens.

Hahaha ...yes Lao consumer rights are basically only "get my money back if i am not satisfied" ...love how you guys simplify things to bullshit when you don't know what you are talking about.

Makes me wonder why do laws of consumer protection have hundreds of pages and paragraphs.

You guys should just stick to comments like "drama", "bla", "cry" ...the less you say the less stupid you look.

i have experience with these things, and goblin i never said you could get your money back if youre simply not satisified, those are your own words. When you purchase something there is nearly always an agreement on terms of service. If it is violated by the company and you are not getting what you paid for, you have everyright to pursue a full refund, and depending on the circumstances you can go even further than that.

However i highly doubt anyone in this thread possesses the resources or the level of bitterness required to do so. This is very much a simple case of getting your money and maps back while having your account terminated. I also highly doubt anyone here will even pursue that.

What this thread is, is a load of pointless noise. Hence my use of the phrase "drama queens".

Γραμμένο από Permamuted, 17.03.2015 at 08:31

What this thread is, is a load of pointless noise. Hence my use of the phrase "drama queens".

Lao ...what don't you understand from the fact that Terms of service must not be changed without notice.

You wouldn't be such a conformist im sure if it was your weeks and weeks of making something.

I am up for deleting my maps.

Γραμμένο από Goblin, 17.03.2015 at 08:44

Γραμμένο από Permamuted, 17.03.2015 at 08:31

What this thread is, is a load of pointless noise. Hence my use of the phrase "drama queens".

Lao ...what don't you understand from the fact that Terms of service must not be changed without notice.

You wouldn't be such a conformist im sure if it was your weeks and weeks of making something.

yea i know, thats not right that it wasnt announced or anything.

And i know the effort required to make a map, but i still dont understand why its so important to have full ownership of its distribution once its published, i hope at some point to have a go at making a map once my interest in playing aw dies down, which it is. Once its published, beyond ppl playing it i wont care what happens with it.

The community wasn't communicated of the ToS change and that was a mistake, but I'm pretty sure there's no evil plan behind that, just a simple mistake.

Let's all remember it got changed after the 2nd "great" map-strike proposed by some players. Now it seems, once again, that some map-makers want to riot against a defensive measurement that, let's be honest, won't probably change anything besides the fact that Ivan and Amok will have something to work with if they get sued.

You want to make strikes, delete your maps and go to the court? Do so.

But please, stop acting like you created the game mechanics, the system and even the tools that allowed you to create your "masterpieces". May I also remind you that, in the beggining, Afterwind had no custom maps or scenarios, and even by that time the community was already growing.

Γραμμένο από Pinheiro, 17.03.2015 at 09:50

But please, stop acting like you created the game mechanics, the system and even the tools that allowed you to create your "masterpieces".

Nobody is acting on that ...but premium bought us the rights on does tools and to use them. And even if the custom maps didn't exist at the time someone bought premium, full life time premium still stated you bought all future content.

So please stop using the "mechanics" argument. You don't buy a ladle and a pot to cook something just for the salesman to say its his meal when you share it with him.

Γραμμένο από Permamuted, 17.03.2015 at 09:49

And i know the effort required to make a map, but i still dont understand why its so important to have full ownership of its distribution once its published,

Neither do i ...im just here for the sake of arguing and mocking poor arguments ...when i finish my maps, crappy or good, they will be my gift to the community.

Γραμμένο από Pinheiro, 17.03.2015 at 09:50

The community wasn't communicated of the ToS change and that was a mistake, but I'm pretty sure there's no evil plan behind that, just a simple mistake.

Let's all remember it got changed after the 2nd "great" map-strike proposed by some players. Now it seems, once again, that some map-makers want to riot against a defensive measurement that, let's be honest, won't probably change anything besides the fact that Ivan and Amok will have something to work with if they get sued.

You want to make strikes, delete your maps and go to the court? Do so.

But please, stop acting like you created the game mechanics, the system and even the tools that allowed you to create your "masterpieces". May I also remind you that, in the beggining, Afterwind had no custom maps or scenarios, and even by that time the community was already growing.

I shall remind everyone once-a-fucking-gain: I am, nor is anyone (under the assumption that) associated with any "great map strikes", nor are we self-righteous about "owning" parts of the actual fucking game. NO WHERE HAVE I SAID THAT I WISH TO OWN OR SUE ANY PART OF THE GAME ITSELF, BUT SIMPLY IF ANY OF MY ORIGINAL, MADE OUTSIDE OF ATWAR, INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY IS TAKEN WITHOUT PERMISSION. I stated it four fucking times now. People agree with these clauses, as seen above. Read everything before making assumptions, and don't generalize people.

Γραμμένο από Guest, 17.03.2015 at 11:51

Γραμμένο από Pinheiro, 17.03.2015 at 09:50

The community wasn't communicated of the ToS change and that was a mistake, but I'm pretty sure there's no evil plan behind that, just a simple mistake.

Let's all remember it got changed after the 2nd "great" map-strike proposed by some players. Now it seems, once again, that some map-makers want to riot against a defensive measurement that, let's be honest, won't probably change anything besides the fact that Ivan and Amok will have something to work with if they get sued.

You want to make strikes, delete your maps and go to the court? Do so.

But please, stop acting like you created the game mechanics, the system and even the tools that allowed you to create your "masterpieces". May I also remind you that, in the beggining, Afterwind had no custom maps or scenarios, and even by that time the community was already growing.

I shall remind everyone once-a-fucking-gain: I am, nor is anyone (under the assumption that) associated with any "great map strikes", nor are we self-righteous about "owning" parts of the actual fucking game. NO WHERE HAVE I SAID THAT I WISH TO OWN OR SUE ANY PART OF THE GAME ITSELF, BUT SIMPLY IF ANY OF MY ORIGINAL, MADE OUTSIDE OF ATWAR, INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY IS TAKEN WITHOUT PERMISSION. I stated it four fucking times now. People agree with these clauses, as seen above. Read everything before making assumptions, and don't generalize people.

Pin is obviously talking about the active mapmakers.Since you reminded us in 3 fucking threads with 10 fucking posts that you no longer play this fucking game, nobody fucking cares about you or your fucking opinion on the fucking matter.

"Gardevoír? There was a fight between mods and players sometimes ago and he ragequit."

I Wonder where I read that...

Γραμμένο από Khal.eesi, 17.03.2015 at 12:21

Γραμμένο από Guest, 17.03.2015 at 11:51

Γραμμένο από Pinheiro, 17.03.2015 at 09:50

The community wasn't communicated of the ToS change and that was a mistake, but I'm pretty sure there's no evil plan behind that, just a simple mistake.

Let's all remember it got changed after the 2nd "great" map-strike proposed by some players. Now it seems, once again, that some map-makers want to riot against a defensive measurement that, let's be honest, won't probably change anything besides the fact that Ivan and Amok will have something to work with if they get sued.

You want to make strikes, delete your maps and go to the court? Do so.

But please, stop acting like you created the game mechanics, the system and even the tools that allowed you to create your "masterpieces". May I also remind you that, in the beggining, Afterwind had no custom maps or scenarios, and even by that time the community was already growing.

I shall remind everyone once-a-fucking-gain: I am, nor is anyone (under the assumption that) associated with any "great map strikes", nor are we self-righteous about "owning" parts of the actual fucking game. NO WHERE HAVE I SAID THAT I WISH TO OWN OR SUE ANY PART OF THE GAME ITSELF, BUT SIMPLY IF ANY OF MY ORIGINAL, MADE OUTSIDE OF ATWAR, INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY IS TAKEN WITHOUT PERMISSION. I stated it four fucking times now. People agree with these clauses, as seen above. Read everything before making assumptions, and don't generalize people.

Pin is obviously talking about the active mapmakers.Since you reminded us in 3 fucking threads with 10 fucking posts that you no longer play this fucking game, nobody fucking cares about you or your fucking opinion on the fucking matter.

I chuckled.

Γραμμένο από Goblin, 17.03.2015 at 07:02

Γραμμένο από Quantum027, 16.03.2015 at 23:09

That is what bothers me about the internet, because this website is accessible in nearly every country (RIP North Korean AtWar players) so how does atwar follow every countries rules without coming across conflicting rules? I find that the internet should either have its own international law or something should be put down to explain why US law should be upheld over Estonian Law, I am not saying that Estonian Law or US Law should be followed but I just find it hard for us to say that this is illegal when we cant even say who makes it illegal because who makes the laws for the internet?

Dude i said above that there are international regulations, laws and rules of jurisdictions.

If i came to USA as a tourist and you kill me ...because im from Croatia would you be trialed by croatian courts under croatian laws?

Also imagine you come from a country where marijuana is legal ...you visit Croatia and roll up a joint ...a cop stops you and you say "but its legal in my country".

...nah you would probably say "im an american citizen, take me to my embassy!!!!" xD

1. Marijuana isnt legal in america, some states made it legal but then again the federal government has it illegal, its a mess.

2. i dont give a fucking shit about real life, I am talking about the internet, we arent traveling to your countries or you traveling to ours, that has nothing to do with anything the issue is what laws does atwar have to follow, or better what laws are in place to govern the internet to ensure that this is treated fairly and would each country uphold an "internet law" since most countries dont have an exact copy of laws from each other.

Γραμμένο από Khal.eesi, 16.03.2015 at 11:21

Ok i realize i might ve been a little too insensitive in my comments.The truth is i can understand where mapmakers are coming from and if i am being honest then i have to admitt that changing the Tos without notifying mapmakers was not cool.Its understandable to be pissed off, i get it.As someone said, i believe the best way to do it was to make every player re-accept the Tos in its new form and choose wether to abide by it or not.

But then, since i am being honest, the admins just made the score 1-1 with this.What mapmakers did in the past, the whole blackmailing thing, was also not cool and honorable and the way i see it, admins just decided to play the same game, mapmakers started in the first place. And they won in the end, because...erm, they created the game..


It is like Muslims who hang and torture women and homosexuals, under sharia law.If i get my hands on one of them subhumans, i will take their teeth out one by one, then take their nails off and then i will keep them in my bathroom, mutilating a part of them every day, while keeping them alive with adrenaline shots and antibiotics.Yes that would make me a criminal aswell.But would anyone blame me in the end?God said an eye for an eye and i am very religious.

Say we "blackmailed the admins" how is what they are doing blackmail? it isnt at all, they are just doing whatever they want to cover their asses because they were worried someone might sue them since they arent exactly running a very smart business

Γραμμένο από Guest, 16.03.2015 at 14:41

Γραμμένο από Fockmeeard, 16.03.2015 at 13:12

Γραμμένο από Guest, 16.03.2015 at 11:38

I should state this again, guys: I haven't been on AtWar for months. What exactly did the cartographer community do that all of you keep blaming them for? "Blackmailing", etc. I'm not a part of that, nor are some of my friends. We simply don't want the resources we provided being exploited, and for the abusive and elusive ToS to be made transparent, public, and humane.

Nobody hates the community of map makers. We hate the arrogance and attitude that many map makers portray. Going back to when mapmakers first wanted the banlist, the whole ideology was "You better give us what we want because we willingly spend our free time doing something you never asked us to do, or else we'll threaten you!!!" and that ideology still seems to be in effect today.

Mapmakers are generous to the community, There is a trade with a steep learning slope when mapmaking. It's not easy. But regardless, you guys hold no right to walk around thinking you deserve the world for what you do.

It is the attitude of the member, not the member himself, that we hate.

I had a huge doc written up as a response to this, but it signed me out when I tried to post it. This is literally the fifth time this has happened. Amok & Ivan need to get their fucking server shit together, this is goddamn ridiculous.

Basically, what I said was: I always was against banlists. They were, and still are, retarded.

We need these three clauses for cartographers:

I. Cartographers own all resources they've made and/or provided for their maps. This includes but is not limited to: Images, Backgrounds, Fonts, Sounds, Ideas, Concepts, and Advertising/String text.

II. Cartographers have the right to publish or un-publish maps that they are the sole, original creator of, or have implicit and proven permission by the sole, original creator of said map, with no intervention into the decision by the Protobytes/AtWar staff in any way, shape, or form. They will only publsh/un-publish the map as requested at the earliest convenience.

III. Cartographers have the right to claim ownership on any and all resources featured in clause I, as long as they do not infringe or come from ProtoBytes/AtWar in any way, shape, or form. IE, you can own anything you make yourself outside of AtWar (Images, Border ideas, stories, etc), but you cannot own the map on AtWar itself.

Does this work?

No because the whole reason why we wanted a banlist wasnt for any of these reasons you just avoided that whole situation when fock brought it up, we wanted a banlist so that we could make it to where trolls werent allowed to join our games or our maps instead of having to do it the old fashion way of making a country name and posting it in the ocean with hopes that the host would listen to it and kick the players on it, who likely changed their names anyways so it didnt even work then.

Γραμμένο από Pinheiro, 17.03.2015 at 09:50

The community wasn't communicated of the ToS change and that was a mistake, but I'm pretty sure there's no evil plan behind that, just a simple mistake.

Let's all remember it got changed after the 2nd "great" map-strike proposed by some players. Now it seems, once again, that some map-makers want to riot against a defensive measurement that, let's be honest, won't probably change anything besides the fact that Ivan and Amok will have something to work with if they get sued.

You want to make strikes, delete your maps and go to the court? Do so.

But please, stop acting like you created the game mechanics, the system and even the tools that allowed you to create your "masterpieces". May I also remind you that, in the beggining, Afterwind had no custom maps or scenarios, and even by that time the community was already growing.

*sigh*

Pinheiro it wasnt an accident or a mistake it was a clear attempt at diffusing the tense situation and it is blowing up in the admins and mods' faces. This wasnt the way to solve anything, as I have said countless times if you all actually listened to the community things would be much better, we arent here to cause issues but when the mods ignore the players and then the admins change policies concerning our works it doesnt exactly sit well with us. And before anyone starts bitching, it is our works (map makers) because we made the maps, regardless of what coding the admins did to make the game and the tools, none of these maps existed until we made them so yes we made the maps.

The ToS change is more than just an ass cover for court, its also solidifying the point that no one in upper-management is listening to the players who are actually invested in this issue. Creating a rule saying that if we delete our maps you all can simply just add them back? that is not only the dumbest idea ever but it is only going to cause problems and conflicts and it doesnt take a genius to have seen that coming.

If more thought is given to things instead of just jumping into actions then things would at least be better executed and better explained. This was clearly an irrational action made in a frenzy and in the end it only makes the situation worse. I was fine with the way things were before all these revolution shit (after the institution of the ban-list ofc), so I dont see why everything keeps getting blown up. I feel that is has something to do with the fact that (as I have said many times) we are being ignored and decisions are being made for no reason.

We would have no reason to go to court if the admins were at least attempting to work with the community, but I dont even see them doing anything more than changing policies in the middle of the night, not exactly a great way to show that they are invested in atwar.

Γραμμένο από RaulPB, 17.03.2015 at 07:32

Γραμμένο από theFuehrer, 16.03.2015 at 17:14

Raul, you should learn to read.. Brian never said I made a mistake as big as the admin's did. He is asking me questions, not telling me. Only you are assuming that because you think I did not PM them, maybe I did, you would still be making a fool of yourself either way for assuming... I simply stated some facts about the admins behaviors when it comes to informing us about lifetime specials, or whatever it may be that involves money vs. informing us about important changes.

After all, the ToS policy does affect me, it affects us all, so why should I, or anybody else, not have a say in these forums that is used for discussion purposes? I am not crying for attention, nor do I care about it, so you should stop thinking that. Simply, I wish they had the decency to inform me some changes were made. If they had done so, I would not be here commenting. But I am almost sure you would be..

I also think you should take your own advice. Why don't you try to approach me like a normal person, instead of insulting me in a public forum? Does that make you any different than what you think I am? Nope, not really.

Have a good day.

Well, the part of it being a mistake is mine, not Brian's; in my opinion, making this public is a mistake, and an even greater mistake in case you've already PMed the admins. In case you already PMed them, what are you doing here? Go talk with them. In case you haven't, give it a shot. I don't think we are anyone to state anything about the admin's behaviour, after all it's their game, do not forget that they can do whatever they please with their game, we can only accept it or quit the game. I think that they should have informed/asked/be curious about other opinions about this change but... It's done. Nothing we can do right? And if there's something that can be done about it, pls share it with us, that would actually be worthy of hearing. But making so many cries in public... what's the purpose of it? Problems should always be discussed in private and solved in private, not made public so that everyone gets to think that the other guy is an asshole or to denigrate his public image, that proves very little respect in my opinion.

Hm... I insulted you? XD PLS! Show me where did I ever insult you If you don't show me any proof of it I might just think you're being a liar?

Raul, you see, the thing is... I never once asked for your opinion. What am I doing here? I am here having a discussion. You say we aren't anyone to state anything about the admin's behavior. Well, if that is what you believe. Who are you to state anything about my behavior? After all, I am my own person, so I can do as I please. If you believe what I am doing is wrong, why don't you try talking to me in private? You do believe problems are solved in private, correct? Or are you trying to make me look like an asshole or/and degenerate my public image? IF you believe doing something like that proves very little respect, than I truly believe you have very little respect. Do you see how I have turned the tables?

Anyway, you saying I am making this a public cry of attention, in other words, you calling me an 'attention whore' is in fact an insult directed at me. If you do or you don't think I am a liar, I would not care but I can assure you I don't speak lies. In the end, this game does not affect my personal life.

But Please, Raul, next time think about everything you say.. so far it has only made you look like a jackass on these forums.

Γραμμένο από Quantum027, 18.03.2015 at 01:30

1. Marijuana isnt legal in america, some states made it legal but then again the federal government has it illegal, its a mess.

2. i dont give a fucking shit about real life, I am talking about the internet, we arent traveling to your countries or you traveling to ours, that has nothing to do with anything the issue is what laws does atwar have to follow, or better what laws are in place to govern the internet to ensure that this is treated fairly and would each country uphold an "internet law" since most countries dont have an exact copy of laws from each other.

1. that is why i specifically said "a country where marijuana is legal" not USA you self absorbed american superman

2. internet is real life, protobytes is real life company and as a company its a "legal person" that follows the laws of a country where its registered, just like you as a physical person following the laws of a country your in.

Try reading terms of service of YOU TUBE.

Since its registered as a legal person in California it follows the laws of California and specifically says that there can be no other jurisdiction of any laws or courts outside California and you as a user agree with this. ...this is logical for fuck sake.

...

Γραμμένο από Khal.eesi, 16.03.2015 at 11:21

God said an eye for an eye and i am very religious.

You would probably be among does people who beat to death that guy in India who was accused of rape only to find out later the guy was wrongfully accused.

Btw. as i remember Jesus said ...turn the other cheek. Or do you follow that crazy old testament God?

Γραμμένο από theFuehrer, 18.03.2015 at 02:28

Raul, you see, the thing is... I never once asked for your opinion. What am I doing here? I am here having a discussion. You say we aren't anyone to state anything about the admin's behavior. Well, if that is what you believe. Who are you to state anything about my behavior? After all, I am my own person, so I can do as I please. If you believe what I am doing is wrong, why don't you try talking to me in private? You do believe problems are solved in private, correct? Or are you trying to make me look like an asshole or/and degenerate my public image? IF you believe doing something like that proves very little respect, than I truly believe you have very little respect. Do you see how I have turned the tables?

Anyway, you saying I am making this a public cry of attention, in other words, you calling me an 'attention whore' is in fact an insult directed at me. If you do or you don't think I am a liar, I would not care but I can assure you I don't speak lies. In the end, this game does not affect my personal life.

But Please, Raul, next time think about everything you say.. so far it has only made you look like a jackass on these forums.

LOL

Nice try. I don't have any problem with you, you're the one with the problem with the ToS rules. I'm trying to advise you what would be best for you to do in case you really wanted to solve this issue, which is talking directly to the admins since they are the only ones that developed those new rules and the only ones that can back down. Since you don't seem to have any other idea for a solution, you shouldn't feel bad for recieving such advise. Summarizing, I'm trying to help, I don't have any problem with anyone, including you.

You might have never asked any opinion at all but you do realise that once you publish your opinions here, in public, you're bowed to be criticised by anyone who reads it?? This is a place to be heard and to give opinions about anything that's being talked about, want it or not, having asked opinion or not. If you didn't want me to give my opinion, as I told you, you should have done this in private. As you say, you're here to have a discussion, which doesn't exclude me.

So, what table did you turn?

Hm... I'm sorry if saying that this is a cry of attention offended you but if you want to understand it as calling you a whore is not my problem, I never said such thing and it doesn't have anything to be with my thoughts. I think you're too used to trolls in this forum. Anyway, you're the one insulting me now so the same goes to you: watch your words asshole.

From my very neutral stand-point. Map makers consistently give admins and mods shit all the time for bullshit reasons and drag those reasons out of proportion every time they do and then get other map makers to join in the shit bath with them and quite frankly you were asking for this kind of thing to happen. What goes around comes around. It shouldn't really surprise anybody that this move was even considered by the admins.

You have to take into account that the world is filled with gobshites and this game is a magnet to them, I dont think anyone can object to that we have all played with a few of them, so putting in this safety net was a very good idea on there part. <BrianWL put up good points above>.

I would also point out that If you asked an admin to delete your map for you before you jump ship they probably would. I cant imagine 2 guys putting in so much effort to write so much program and put any money into a game for other people, a lot of which only seem to latch onto the things they have not got instead of what they have been GIVEN, only to be a dick about a measly little map issue.

I'd say they done this so that they cant get blind-sided by some money grabbing whore trying to sue them or lose some of the maps made in Atwar to another better funded online game that could outpace them with better servers or something and then they would lose all there players and everything they've done would just end up falling apart of them. <Again BrianWL said much the same above>

What I'll say on side of the map makers is that its a bit of a dick move to try to claim outright the map that somebody else has made. Credit where credit is due should have been practised here. The admins should make some kind of recognition set aside for map makers who have put more time than other into making maps that are widely used by the community even if its the rp lot although i two consider the real community to be in on the forums and not alot of rp'ers come on here very often

The new ToS should have made it clear that the map could not be used outside atwar without the admins AND the makers consent.
That the game is apart of atwar and made with atwar software and it was made available to the community through the admins and so anything made with it could only be made because of the admins so even if the map was made solely by a charitable individual it can not be used in another game.

I think even though Map Makers want more freedoms with there maps some of which are understandable you have to admit that they arent going to allow you to bring maps made here to another copy site online game.

And on a slightly unrelated note i dont think these guys have got a lawyer to look over these Terms and conditions just from reading it but i could be wrong. so its not going to be full of jargon. you have to respect that the guys who have made the game want to best for it and that if something is being put up in the rules it there just to protect them as best as they can come up with by themselves without the help of some high class lawyer who will phrase everything so that you dont even understand what your in on. at least you can understand what's in the terms+conditions.

Γραμμένο από Netre, 18.03.2015 at 08:23

You have to take into account that the world is filled with gobshites and this game is a magnet to them

I beg your pardon.

Btw. you people are really cute with your "map makers deserved this" xD ...why i laugh? ...because admins did no harm to map makers, beside insulting them.

Yea maybe they can stop you from deleting your map, unpublishing it ...but they have no right what so ever to control HOW YOU EDIT your map, that is your right ...and if that means taking a dump on a map, editing the borders to look like shit, removing cities ...its map makers "art" and design.

So who has the real control here? ...dead letter on paper like i said, one that was changed without notice.

If you think map makers are the bad guys, you haven't been paying attention. Map makers not only have to deal with countless hordes of trolls that think is more fun to ruin a scenario than to play it, but also have to deal with biased mod politics.

Mods don't even play the game anymore, they have never waited 30 minutes for a scenario to fill just to be trolled by 1 guy.

Mods think that trolls are non-existent and that map makers ban for fun, just ask any scenario player and they will tell you that there would be no issues if map makers had full control of their maps.